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Mad Max asked:
I’ve asked this in the infectious diseases section, but wanted to ask in the biology section too since there may be people who know more about influenza.
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Not to sound paranoid, but there are a few odd things about this virus that are emerging. The most alarming is that it appears to have genetic material from avian flu, human flu, and swine flu. Since flu viruses do not exchange genetic material during their reproductive cycle, how could this be a natural phenomenon?
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I’ve asked this in the infectious diseases section, but wanted to ask in the biology section too since there may be people who know more about influenza.
———————–
Not to sound paranoid, but there are a few odd things about this virus that are emerging. The most alarming is that it appears to have genetic material from avian flu, human flu, and swine flu. Since flu viruses do not exchange genetic material during their reproductive cycle, how could this be a natural phenomenon?
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Tags: Avian Flu, Flu, Flu Viruses, Genetic Material, Influenza
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34 Responses so far to "Is it possible that the swine flu virus is an engineered recombinant strain?"
July 30th, 2007 at 8:39 am
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I do think this is possible. It is not of military strength but it really burst onto the world wide stage with enough strength for me to think this wasn’t just a “lucky” viral mutation.
Even more intriguing, the swine flu initiated with the arrival of Obama in Mexico City. In fact one of the people Obama met personally while in Mexico City reportedly died the next day of Swine Flu.
If this was a bio-engineered Swine Flu strain from a Terrorist group they may have realized they had a better chance of hitting Obama in Mexico than here in the U.S.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
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Any kind of virus consumed fried or boiled is safe.
You may it any evil genius created food well preserved.
August 2nd, 2007 at 5:18 am
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THEY are trying to kill off most the population.NWO
This is most likely just a test run.
August 3rd, 2007 at 1:08 am
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Yes, Ken Alibek, the head of the Soviet Bio-Weapons program from 1988 to 1992 said in his book “Biohazard” his researchers were working on genetically modifed organisms with a view to weaponize them. That was 17 years ago. I am sure they have done it.
August 4th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
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The NWO is spreading this thru chem-trails to KILL PEOPLE. The anti-christ is going to emerge soon, He is controlling Obama’s every move behind the scenes. Look at the evil laws Obama is passing. The anti-christ will be in charge of the Europeon Union first. Pray for your families and country. God is going to give us a warning very soon. He will be victorious and lead us to a place of safety.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:05 am
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The answer to that question is another question.
While a virus mutates all the time, there must be stages of milder versions around.
In the case that there are absolutely no mild versions of this virus around, then the chance is bigger that it may have been engineered.
If there are many mild versions around, then it is probably of natural origin.
So the question is: Are there many mild versions around and is there a killer mutation.
If the mild version and the killer version is the same virus that acts differently in different people so in the case there is no mutation, then with 100 deaths if there are 100.000 infected people around, you can call this a regular flu with less than 1% death rate.
If we have 200 people outside Mexico that got infected by just going there for a couple of days, then inside Mexico we must have at least a couple of million infected people. They are infected people we don’t know about because they just have a mild flu. Assuming there was no mutation, then 100 deaths is no issue and we just discovered a new flu by checking some death causes.
In this case it is probably not engineered.
Caution must be taken to rule out a killer mutation, and a new virus has the potential, and that is the hysteria you see in the media.
If some person get infected with swine flu by a swine and a human flu at the same time, then it can recombine in the human. I think it is also possible a swine got a human flu and a swine flu and the virus recombined in the swine. Note that the swine will not cover its nose when sneezing and spread the flu with other swines, infecting humans as well.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:49 am
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Peace to you!
From a metaphysical standpoint and a biological standpoint, check out:
Drug Co. Caught Injecting Live Bird Flu Virus Into Flu Vaccines
(Here, it was the bird flu)
seems to say some flu is engineered (as are the pandemics).
Since folks ain’t caring about wars onterrors, well you know that song (Bonnie Raite?)
“Let’s Give Them Something (else) to Talk (worry) About!”
THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES.
“And this, too, shall pass!””
Be blessed
BLACKMALELAW
August 8th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
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My concern would be, not keeping our boarders safe. It would be somewhat easy for someone infected with something even worse than the swine-flu to bring cross into the US and spread it within a large city. does that bother anyone in our government?
August 9th, 2007 at 2:57 am
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I’m not sure there’s enough information at this time to rule out any possibilities. I’m grateful it only took 81 people to die before Mexico publicized this to the world. It took 25,000 Americans to die of AIDS before it was publicly acknowledged.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:09 am
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Watch this special report by Alex Jones. It is highly likely 95% that this was created in a lab and is a test for something worse to come. Obama also owns shares in the vaccine company.
August 14th, 2007 at 6:44 am
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I have been asking myself that question since west nile made it over here to the US. Now ever more so after this outbreak. I think even if those in a position of authority knew that answer, they wouldn’t share. I really don’t think it has anything to do with Obama, just coincidence. But I have some maddening questions- Why would someone make the comment “attempts to contain or quarentine at this point would only be political…” What!? Political how, working and doing everything possible to slow and contain the spread of this thing to avoid American deaths? Russia, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Indonesia and other countries are screening people coming in and if they have a fever, they are quarentined until they can determine what is the cause of the fever before they are turned loose on their people. Why are countries who are supposed to be not as great as ours work harder (sometimes) to keep their people safe? Why do we have to make everything political? Why can’t we do what is right? Secondly, in the beginning, the first cases reported in the US (Texas and CA) they refused to release the race of those infected, why? We now know they were hispanic. Why would they keep that secret? How many more reasons to we need to secure our border? While other countries are screening passengers coming off of planes, how do we screen the thousand or so people coming daily from the country teaming with this virus and sneaking illegally into our country and who knows who they are going to come into contact with. This is so upsetting- I suppose whether or not it was bio-engineered is mute until we figure out how to keep US citizens safe from it.
August 16th, 2007 at 5:03 am
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Flu viruses (family Orthomyxoviridae) have a segmented genome, with 8 pieces of RNA each coding for one gene. When two strains infect a single cell, the progeny can be any combination of segments from each parent strain. That is called reassortment, and it is how flu viruses jump the species barrier so efficiently. So no, it is no smoking gun that this one has human, swine, and avian segments, this has been happening all along and pigs have long been known to be the mixing bowl for new flu strains. It does not mean that we are sure it was NOT bio-engineered but if it were, why would they pick something so relatively weak? Influenza is never truly mild but for it to have spread worldwide already, there must be millions of Mexicans infected, yet the deaths are not greater than 100. My vote is this one is natural.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
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The first diagnose of the swine flu was in 1976 but returned again in 2007 and now stronger than before in 2009.
Related to the vaccine, there has been inconsistent responses to it since the flu has grown stronger. The current vaccines are oseltamivir (Tamiflu) and zanamivir (Relenza), it is said that the flu is susceptible to those but not guarantee to cure it. Scientist are still doing research on the swine flu because it is rare of the mix of avian-human-swine but remember that viruses evolve through time, so it could be a posibility.
The vaccine for the human seasonal flu does not protect against the Swine Flu, even if the virus strains are the same specific variety, as antigenically very different.
The virus was transmitted first from pigs to humans but became dangerous when it started infecting human-to-human. That’s why it is also very important for the people who have swine farms to take their pigs to the veterinary for a swine flu vaccine. Maybe this is one of the big reasons that the flu started so strong in Mexico (since more people live from farms than in the US).
August 20th, 2007 at 8:19 am
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o come on people! this was gonna happen anyways, it was a matter of time
get over yourselves
August 20th, 2007 at 11:25 am
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who needs terrorists when u have the government?
mexico has shut down nd if they do that to the US long enough it’ll drop dollar value immensely. eventually other countries that r used to depending on our currency will feel it too.
it would mean a halt worldwide.
it’d affect our marketing world and of course, food and water access.
given the chaos, they will introduce the RFID chip and idiots will gladly accept it. from there on out its smooth sailing towards the North American Union and their quest towards the NWO.
RESIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:38 am
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Given all of the other issues we are faced with when it comes to Mexico, (ie: poverty, crime, drug)s, immigration, I do not believe that it is an engineered strain. How? You may ask. I reside in the lower border region of Texas; right along the Mexican border. I work with immigrants on a daily basis and have come to recognize that this particular illness has been slow in coming but coming nonetheless. It is a natural process of evolution. Diseases, flu, meningitis, MRSA to name a few, are proof of this. It is sad to say that until it hit a national level no-one was aware of the fact that this flu was and has been here for a while, along with others that should really worry you. I believe the people in our area are the forgotten citizens of our country. Even though we have a border, a half built border wall and Homeland Security. It is a common belief that the differentiation between us and our neighbors across the border are one in the same. We haven’t much choice when it comes to deciding who we will educate, treat and keep in this country. That is another issue altogether. The fact is, the rate at which children and the elderly become ill in this area is very high in comparison to the rest of our nation. Yes. Needless to say. It had to become an international issue before an acknowledgment and a plan of action was implemented. Maybe, it’s our nation’s way of forcing Mexico to take responsibility for it’s people instead of continuing to support that nation’s total disregard of it’s citizens. Has anyone thought of that as a possibility?
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:30 am
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Don’t panic. If you get swine you can be cured check out the faq at this site will help answer your questions
August 26th, 2007 at 8:40 am
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Check out the links below. I just read them, and I am starting to look up more information on them. The commenters at the bottom of the articles give a lot of links. I’m not getting all tinfoil-at on everyone because I haven’t researched it much, but this definitely needs to be looked in to. You have a large number bio-engineers working for the government dying violent deaths, samples of swine flu missing from Fort Derick, and a flu virus that has swine, avian, and human flu strains spreading in concentrated areas across the world at the same time. This obviously isn’t some random occurrence. Research it yourself. I am trying to get more solid answers from AP sites.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:30 am
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I was just on CDC bc me and my son are supposed to go to Isla Mujeres on May 7th. Here’s the link of what the CDC said about the combo of them… Hopes this helps–Sara
August 27th, 2007 at 1:12 am
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u have to step back… look at the big picture…
its swine bird human…. just like aids.. its all man made.. if u want answers and u look at mainstream news.. GOOD LUCK.. they get paid by the big boys.. the big corp.. GOOGLE this stuff and look at both sides…
August 28th, 2007 at 8:55 am
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Please read all of this post…
Health authorities across the globe are taking steps to try to stem the spread of swine flu after outbreaks in Mexico and the United States, and suspected cases elsewhere. RN Breakfast’s science correspondent Dr Chris Smith and the World Health Organisation (WHO) explain how swine flu is spread from animals to humans.
What do we know about the swine flu virus in general and what do we know about this new strain?
Dr Chris Smith: The flu is a very ancestrally old illness. It’s a virus that has been around for thousands of years. It started off as an infection in birds and slowly over those thousands of years diversified to infect every single warm-blooded animal on Earth and a few cold-blooded ones, including snakes.
All these different organisms have their own forms of flu and periodically they can exchange them with other related animals. Birds can exchange their forms of flu with us, that gives us bird flu and periodically spawns one type of pandemic. Also, pigs can exchange their form of flu with birds and perhaps other large mammals, including horses. Because pigs, as very big mammals, are so similar to humans, they can also exchange viruses with humans and this is why we think the present outbreak could have occurred.
A pig could have had a form of flu and if a pig worker infects that pig with a form of human flu, the pig can then be co-infected with two very similar viruses at the same time. The way that flu organises its genetic material makes it very easy for the virus to do what is called reassortment. You can get a hybrid where the worst bits of both viruses combine, producing a super-virus.
You end up with a virus which has an outer coat resembling the outer coat of the pig form of the virus, but has the inner workings and the ability to evade the human immune system of the human form, which means it can spread very readily amongst humans. Because it looks like nothing we’ve seen before, there is no “herd immunity” in the population, so it spreads very effectively and very easily.
When and where do swine flu outbreaks occur?
WHO: Outbreaks in pigs occur year round, usually in the autumn and winter in temperate zones. Since international health regulations were implemented in 2007, WHO has been notified of swine influenza cases from the United States and Spain.
Governments do not have to notify international animal health authorities about swine flu outbreaks, therefore its international distribution in animals is not well known. The disease is considered endemic in the United States. Outbreaks in pigs are also known to have occurred in North America, South America, Europe (including the UK, Sweden, and Italy), Africa (Kenya) and in parts of eastern Asia including China and Japan .
This super-virus we’re looking at now is said to be a cross between a pig flu, a human flu and also the bird flu, which has been deadly too. Does this make it even more dangerous?
Dr Smith: Flu is broken down into a number of different types: there’s flu A, flu B and flu C. Flu A is the bird form and, of course, humans also have a flu A. Then we further categorise it according to the surface molecules, the H (for Haemagglutinin) and the N on the surface.
This new strain is a H1N1 virus, which we know circulates in humans, pigs and birds. It’s possible that the pig initially got some of its flu from a bird and then co-mixed that with the human form to produce this hybrid, which is why you can find elements of all three.
It is very much early days and the big focus now, through infection control organisations like the Centres for Disease and Prevention (CDP) and the WHO, will be to interrogate this virus at a molecular level.
In other words, look at the genetic make-up, sequence the virus, and once they’ve got the genetic sequence you can begin to unpick where it’s come from, what its origins are, and therefore begin to build the story as to what its likely outcome will be.
WHO: Swine flu viruses are most commonly of the H1N1 subtype but other subtypes g (H1N2, H3N1 and H3N) are also circulating. The H3N2 swine virus was thought to have been originally introduced into pigs by humans.
An influenza virus containing genes from a number of sources is called a “reassortant” virus. Swine flu viruses are normally species specific and only infect pigs, but sometimes they cross the species barrier to cause disease in humans.&
The World Health Organisation has activated stage three of its six stage global influenza plan and that puts nations on pandemic alert. Stage three is activated when there is “no or limited human-to-human transmission”. But how could the virus have spread as it has without human-to-human transmission?
Dr Smith: The key thing here is going to be the epidemiology. In other words, looking at the numbers and how they relate to populations. What Mexico and then the subsequent cases in America tell us is that there are no confirmed examples of all of these other cases all having links to pigs.
Normally when we see these “zoonotic jumps” (a virus which is normally found in one animal getting into people, like H5N1 bird flu), when you see human cases there is some association with an animal. You cannot account for the cases that are happening in other countries like America on those grounds.
So there must be some other factor, some other ingredient. We think that’s probably human-to-human transmission and so that’s why people are worried because we think we’re seeing onward transmission now, and not just to a few cases but to lots of cases.
Normally when these viruses jump out of their host species and get into a new species, it’s somewhat constrained in its ability to multiply and spread, because the virus has found itself in foreign territory – us, rather than an animal – to which its ill-adapted.
This virus doesn’t seem to be ill-adapted in that way, suggesting it’s well-adapted to life in a human, enabling it to spread efficiently from one person to the next.
Given how infectious the flu is, and given how mobile the human population is around the planet, the UK government in a working party report in 2000 suggested there is something like 500,000 people airborne around planet Earth at any instant in time – this means the potential for this to spread far and wide, very quickly, is high.
WHO: People usually get swine influenza from infected pigs, however, some human cases lack contact history with pigs or environments where pigs have been located. Human-to-human transmission has occurred in some instances but was limited to close contacts and closed groups of people.
It is likely that most people, especially those who do not have regular contact with pigs, do not have immunity to swine influenza viruses that can prevent the virus infection.
If a swine virus establishes efficient human-to human transmission, it can cause an influenza pandemic. The impact of a pandemic caused by such a virus is difficult to predict: it depends on virulence of the virus, existing immunity among people, cross protection by antibodies acquired from seasonal influenza infection and host factors.
What are the symptoms of this flu and how does it kill you?
Dr Smith: The health protection agency in the UK has drawn up an algorithm as to how they intend to assess people. The first point on the algorithm is geography. Have people come in from an area where we’re seeing disease activity? That includes obviously parts of the US now but chiefly Mexico .
Then there is a symptom algorithm. It’s a temperature of more than 38 degrees, or a history of a temperature of more than 38 degrees and not only respiratory symptoms (for example, a runny nose) or a headache but also diarrhoea and vomiting.
Some of the US cases have presented with diarrhoea, though it’s not clear actually if those symptoms were incidental. But because this is a foreign virus getting into people it could present in an atypical way.
They’re using that initial screening and then activating various molecular tests, using tests that can detect the genetic material of the virus to see if we’re onto this form of flu.
WHO: Swine flu tends to be associated with high morbidity (that is, it infects a large proportion of an area’s population) but low mortality (less than 5 per cent of infected patients die of the disease).
Generally clinical symptoms are similar to seasonal influenza but reported clinical presentation ranges broadly from asymptomatic infection to severe pneumonia resulting in death.
Since typical clinical presentation of swine influenza infection in humans resembles seasonal influenza and other acute upper respiratory tract infections, most of the cases have been detected by chance through seasonal influenza surveillance. Mild or asymptomatic cases may have escaped from recognition; therefore the true extent of this disease among humans is unknown.
Is it safe to eat pork meat and pork products?
WHO: Yes. Swine influenza has not been shown to be transmissible to people through eating properly handled and prepared pork (pig meat) or other products derived from pigs. The swine influenza virus is killed by cooking temperatures of 70 degrees Celsius, corresponding to the general guidance for the preparation of pork and other meat.
Is there a human vaccine to protect from swine influenza?
WHO: There are no vaccines that contain the current swine influenza virus causing illness in humans. It is not known whether current human seasonal influenza vaccines can provide any protection.
Influenza viruses change very quickly. It is important to develop a vaccine against the currently circulating virus strain for it to provide maximum protection to the vaccinated people. This is why WHO needs access to as many viruses as possible in order to
August 29th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
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If it turns out to kill selectively Latin American people and cause mild symptoms in Caucasians and others, then it is definitely engineered.
If this is true then please note that they will never admit this, and they will probably cover it up and say that Tamiflu is the reason why there are no more deaths to lament. But if deaths will keep occurring among the LA crowd despite Tamiflu then draw your conclusion.
Then if that occurs, they will say: Swine flu had become resistant against Tamiflu.
Or maybe it is of natural origen, and LA people are more susceptible for this disease, and that is why until now we notice this flu, because it arrived in Mexico and started causing deaths. Nobody had investigated this mild flu, because nobody investigates somebody who has a mild flu.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:27 am
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Here’s your answer:
Realize this was written in February.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:47 pm
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I heard there were some viruses missing from Fort Detrick. Which ones? Who took them? Who has them?
September 4th, 2007 at 4:15 am
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This article outlines the types of swine flu, you might want to take a look at it.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:09 am
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it’s absolutely not. this is man-made. aids is going to be a thing of the past once the cdc decides what new concoction to unleash on the planet. what’s bad is this is probably only a test to see the rapid spreading and how the world responds to this emergency. completely engineered and deliberately released. we are under attack
September 7th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
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Yes its possible….what a great way to reduce population and take away from all the attention on the terrible economy
September 9th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
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Fact: There is only a 1/10 of 1 percent chance that this “cocktail” of flu virus parts (FROM 4 DIFFERENT CONTINENTS!!!!!!!!) could have occurred naturally. Numerous biologists have said just that, so I guess the answer
is YES! Population reduction is a major goal for many who run governments. It’s only too convenient that Congress passed a law providing for “emergency centers” (FEMA camps that have already been built by KBR and have been staffed with guards for well over a year) just in time for this “emergency”. Wake up! This is no accident!
September 11th, 2007 at 5:40 am
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I am not a bio-engineer, but I suspect that it is quite possible that the virus could have been engineered, tho finding direct evidence of that is highly unlikely. It is of great fascination to me that it contains such a diverse set of “fingerprints”, from widely dispersed locations. It is an unlikely but not impossible combination. Some very good earlier responses to this post describe the mechanism for mutation quite nicely.
I would *also* make an interesting counter-argument to those who think the intent of releasing a virus like this could be malign… It could also explain why it is overall far less lethal than one might assume would be true for a weaponized disease.
This virus contains segments of a flu lineage (Avian) which has in someplaces had a 60% mortality rate. What if someone might have engineered and released this as a *challenge* virus, in an effort to build immunity in populations against a threat that is over 100 times more lethal?
September 11th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
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I was totally thinking the same thing and whenever I say it people are ll like oh your just full of conspiracies and I am glad to hear someone else is thinking it and not just me!
September 13th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
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i believe it is a trial run. The time is near
September 17th, 2007 at 12:47 am
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swine flu is just yet another virus mutating to survive. All viruses do. That is why we have flu epidemics every year. Between 250,00 and 500,00 people die every year from the regular flu. Viruses mutate to survive. And the general population does not help with our over use of antiviral and antibiotic medications. For example, the MRSA (methicillin resistant staph aureaus) surge within the past year. Why did this happen? because the bacteria mutated to become resistant to most antibiotics. And it’s the same thing with influenza (any type). Im not much of a conspiracy theorist and have to laugh when I hear people say President Obama took it to Mexico to kill off the terrorists or for “population control”. For Heavens sake. Flu epidemics happen. Pandemics happen, it’s the course of nature. And as I said before as long as we continue to bomb our bodies with antiviral and antibiotic meds these bacterias and viruses will continue to mutate and become resistant to them, thus forming these “superbugs”. Am I scared? Not really. Concerned? ok maybe. the flu sucks, no matter what type it is.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:22 am
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yesterday was a great show at Alex Jones radio about curent epidemics. of course its all NWO!! they want to get rid of majority of population, and those who survive will be living in prison closed totally controlled cities.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
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It is possible, but I don’t think likely. While on a large scale, convergent evolution does not occur (if you put a dog and human in the same room for thousands of years you don’t get a man-dog), flu viruses have been known to use a single human as a jumping board for convergent strains. Perhaps this is because of the microscopic level of these viruses.